03/04 - Soaring Saturday!

WimpLo · Mar 4, 2017

Title: Take a 1-question, multi-option survey (US-based only, 35-49, Grad School, Female, College, 18-34) | PANDA
Requester: PickFu [AI2HRFAYYSAW7] (Contact)
TO: [Pay: 4.24] [Fair: 4.72] [Comm: 4.15] [Fast: 4.79] [Reviews: 279] [ToS: 1]
Description: For each pair of options, choose the option that best answers the question. Explain your choice. Limited to previous PickFu responders meeting the target demographics.
Time: 15 minutes
HITs Available: 1
Reward: $0.18
Qualifications: Education In 2, 3; PickFu NDA EqualTo 1; Gender In 2; Age In 2, 3; Location EqualTo US;
HIT posted from Mturk Suite v1.11.7

jdzane · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

I've previously sat down and mapped out most of the math on it (after the third or fourth time someone joked about me doing it lol). I'm pretty confident I could have a functional replacement (with a rudimentary API and everything) in about a month built onto TH.

The problem is.. I can't dedicate the vast amount of time being completely unpaid, especially if the end product doesn't get used. This discussion has come up like 5-6 times now, and I can never tell how serious anyone ever is about it. The two biggest hurdles we'd have to overcome are:

1) Will people participate if the platform is created: we all complain/joke about TO, but really there are some compelling arguments to suggest that TO being bad is good for intelligent and self-sufficient workers. Obviously in some ideal world where work is plentiful and workers aren't in competition for work TO is a fantastic idea, but there is no doubt some people purposefully leave low quality TO reviews, and this isn't going to go away by recreating the platform (though it will be solved with proper moderation, which is also something I think we can provide here). BUT, none of that means that people will actually take the time to participate. Much like the Wiki, its always going to follow that 90/10 trend of submissions (though I know the Wiki suffers from the extra burdensome bbcode garbage, which a TurkerHub driven TO replacement hopefully wouldn't, it'd be more form-like).

2) Is anyone willing to consider crowd-funding it? I happily dedicate a lot of time to creating stuff for this site, but this is a project looking upwards of over 100 hours worth of dev/admin/setup time - and likely increased server costs. A similar piece of base software already exists as an extension of this site, but its not free and it isn't "out of the box" capable of doing what we want it to do (specifically API calls and considering AMT integration / usability)..

I love all of you dearly, and believe me its freaking awesome that every month this place is paid for (and then some a lot last month) - but this is a completely different beast haha. The wiki is one thing, because it functions even w/ low content generation, but if I were to spend the same amount of time recreating TO here and there was no community driven content generation, I'd have to Sudoku myself because it wouldn't be functional at all.

Just food for thought. I use TO every once in a blue moon, but I can also survive without it, so this doesn't really tickle my special place like some project ideas do.
Click to expand...

I've always just wanted you to take a small salary from TH for the work you do. But you seem to want to refuse. But if you get more than needed one month, I think you should give yourself permission to take a percentage over the donation limit as payment to yourself.

ChrisTurk · Mar 4, 2017

Kadauchi said: ↑

Side note: You should also wait until after the "new" TO launches.
Click to expand...

Edit: I agree it isn't difficult, just time intensive to integrate with the platform we already have here. And anything more than 30 minutes for something that isn't going to get used (to your first point) is pointless for me.

SAJ · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

I've previously sat down and mapped out most of the math on it (after the third or fourth time someone joked about me doing it lol). I'm pretty confident I could have a functional replacement (with a rudimentary API and everything) in about a month built onto TH.

The problem is.. I can't dedicate the vast amount of time being completely unpaid, especially if the end product doesn't get used. This discussion has come up like 5-6 times now, and I can never tell how serious anyone ever is about it. The two biggest hurdles we'd have to overcome are:

1) Will people participate if the platform is created: we all complain/joke about TO, but really there are some compelling arguments to suggest that TO being bad is good for intelligent and self-sufficient workers. Obviously in some ideal world where work is plentiful and workers aren't in competition for work TO is a fantastic idea, but there is no doubt some people purposefully leave low quality TO reviews, and this isn't going to go away by recreating the platform (though it will be solved with proper moderation, which is also something I think we can provide here). BUT, none of that means that people will actually take the time to participate. Much like the Wiki, its always going to follow that 90/10 trend of submissions (though I know the Wiki suffers from the extra burdensome bbcode garbage, which a TurkerHub driven TO replacement hopefully wouldn't, it'd be more form-like).

2) Is anyone willing to consider crowd-funding it? I happily dedicate a lot of time to creating stuff for this site, but this is a project looking upwards of over 100 hours worth of dev/admin/setup time - and likely increased server costs. A similar piece of base software already exists as an extension of this site, but its not free and it isn't "out of the box" capable of doing what we want it to do (specifically API calls and considering AMT integration / usability)..

I love all of you dearly, and believe me its freaking awesome that every month this place is paid for (and then some a lot last month) - but this is a completely different beast haha. The wiki is one thing, because it functions even w/ low content generation, but if I were to spend the same amount of time recreating TO here and there was no community driven content generation, I'd have to Sudoku myself because it wouldn't be functional at all.

Just food for thought. I use TO every once in a blue moon, but I can also survive without it, so this doesn't really tickle my special place like some project ideas do.
Click to expand...

Ok done soup n sammich...yeah umm wow too much work... I rarely use it myself but when i do I get so mad at the stupidity I read...but anyways I had no idea it is so much work to "make". Y'all should ban me from thinking

WimpLo · Mar 4, 2017

Title: Move the dot | PANDA
Requester: Cocosci Lab at UC Berkeley [AHG3DFQ65ESGY] (Contact)
TO: [Comm: 4.51] [Pay: 4.25] [Fair: 4.89] [Fast: 4.86] [Reviews: 341] [ToS: 0]
Description: Reproduce the movement of a dot.
Time: 30 minutes
HITs Available: 1
Reward: $0.50
Qualifications: None
This HIT was posted through TurkerHub xPort Script v2.1 • Learn More • Install Here

ChrisTurk · Mar 4, 2017

SAJ said: ↑

Ok done soup n sammich...yeah umm wow too much work... I rarely use it myself but when i do I get so mad at the stupidity I read...but anyways I had no idea it is so much work to "make". Y'all should ban me from thinking
Click to expand...

Lol, the difficulty isn't high, just time intensive to setup correctly. Its mostly the fact that any time invested for something that isn't going to get used and wont function w/o heavy usage is .. pointless.

Melting Glacier · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

I've previously sat down and mapped out most of the math on it (after the third or fourth time someone joked about me doing it lol). I'm pretty confident I could have a functional replacement (with a rudimentary API and everything) in about a month built onto TH.

The problem is.. I can't dedicate the vast amount of time being completely unpaid, especially if the end product doesn't get used. This discussion has come up like 5-6 times now, and I can never tell how serious anyone ever is about it. The two biggest hurdles we'd have to overcome are:

1) Will people participate if the platform is created: we all complain/joke about TO, but really there are some compelling arguments to suggest that TO being bad is good for intelligent and self-sufficient workers. Obviously in some ideal world where work is plentiful and workers aren't in competition for work TO is a fantastic idea, but there is no doubt some people purposefully leave low quality TO reviews, and this isn't going to go away by recreating the platform (though it will be solved with proper moderation, which is also something I think we can provide here). BUT, none of that means that people will actually take the time to participate. Much like the Wiki, its always going to follow that 90/10 trend of submissions (though I know the Wiki suffers from the extra burdensome bbcode garbage, which a TurkerHub driven TO replacement hopefully wouldn't, it'd be more form-like).

2) Is anyone willing to consider crowd-funding it? I happily dedicate a lot of time to creating stuff for this site, but this is a project looking upwards of over 100 hours worth of dev/admin/setup time - and likely increased server costs. A similar piece of base software already exists as an extension of this site, but its not free and it isn't "out of the box" capable of doing what we want it to do (specifically API calls and considering AMT integration / usability)..

I love all of you dearly, and believe me its freaking awesome that every month this place is paid for (and then some a lot last month) - but this is a completely different beast haha. The wiki is one thing, because it functions even w/ low content generation, but if I were to spend the same amount of time recreating TO here and there was no community driven content generation, I'd have to Sudoku myself because it wouldn't be functional at all.

Just food for thought. I use TO every once in a blue moon, but I can also survive without it, so this doesn't really tickle my special place like some project ideas do.
Click to expand...

How about something a lot more simplistic? I was thinking more along the lines of sticking in something that aggregates info like time to completion, inquisit usage, etc into a dedicated page (on the Wiki?). All exports would get an automatically-generated requester page, any replies to exports would add the post content to the requester's page. Doesn't have the problem of adoption rate and extra work filling out forms.

SAJ · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

Lol, the difficulty isn't high, just time intensive to setup correctly. Its mostly the fact that any time invested for something that isn't going to get used and wont function w/o heavy usage is .. pointless.
Click to expand...

Still ban me from thinking or sharing my thinks

DigitalDenizen · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

I've previously sat down and mapped out most of the math on it (after the third or fourth time someone joked about me doing it lol). I'm pretty confident I could have a functional replacement (with a rudimentary API and everything) in about a month built onto TH.

The problem is.. I can't dedicate the vast amount of time being completely unpaid, especially if the end product doesn't get used. This discussion has come up like 5-6 times now, and I can never tell how serious anyone ever is about it. The two biggest hurdles we'd have to overcome are:

1) Will people participate if the platform is created: we all complain/joke about TO, but really there are some compelling arguments to suggest that TO being bad is good for intelligent and self-sufficient workers. Obviously in some ideal world where work is plentiful and workers aren't in competition for work TO is a fantastic idea, but there is no doubt some people purposefully leave low quality TO reviews, and this isn't going to go away by recreating the platform (though it will be solved with proper moderation, which is also something I think we can provide here). BUT, none of that means that people will actually take the time to participate. Much like the Wiki, its always going to follow that 90/10 trend of submissions (though I know the Wiki suffers from the extra burdensome bbcode garbage, which a TurkerHub driven TO replacement hopefully wouldn't, it'd be more form-like).

2) Is anyone willing to consider crowd-funding it? I happily dedicate a lot of time to creating stuff for this site, but this is a project looking upwards of over 100 hours worth of dev/admin/setup time - and likely increased server costs. A similar piece of base software already exists as an extension of this site, but its not free and it isn't "out of the box" capable of doing what we want it to do (specifically API calls and considering AMT integration / usability)..

I love all of you dearly, and believe me its freaking awesome that every month this place is paid for (and then some a lot last month) - but this is a completely different beast haha. The wiki is one thing, because it functions even w/ low content generation, but if I were to spend the same amount of time recreating TO here and there was no community driven content generation, I'd have to Sudoku myself because it wouldn't be functional at all.

Just food for thought. I use TO every once in a blue moon, but I can also survive without it, so this doesn't really tickle my special place like some project ideas do.
Click to expand...

I had heard of people abusing TO but always thought it was overstated, how much of a problem are false ratings?

Kadauchi · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

Edit: I agree it isn't difficult, just time intensive to integrate with the platform we already have here. And anything more than 30 minutes for something that isn't going to get used (to your first point) is pointless for me.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The new TO will be a little better than what we currently have too, but I won't be using it for anything more than I currently do now.

SAJ · Mar 4, 2017

DigitalDenizen said: ↑

I had heard of people abusing TO but always thought it was overstated, how much of a problem are false ratings?
Click to expand...

Let's just use 1 example Brelig is like a 3.5/ ish pay

but my real issue is the bad ratings given for ac's screeners and what not

jdzane · Mar 4, 2017

how bad is the tedlab sentences? I just caught it.

CorvusSapiens · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

I've previously sat down and mapped out most of the math on it (after the third or fourth time someone joked about me doing it lol). I'm pretty confident I could have a functional replacement (with a rudimentary API and everything) in about a month built onto TH.

The problem is.. I can't dedicate the vast amount of time being completely unpaid, especially if the end product doesn't get used. This discussion has come up like 5-6 times now, and I can never tell how serious anyone ever is about it. The two biggest hurdles we'd have to overcome are:

1) Will people participate if the platform is created: we all complain/joke about TO, but really there are some compelling arguments to suggest that TO being bad is good for intelligent and self-sufficient workers. Obviously in some ideal world where work is plentiful and workers aren't in competition for work TO is a fantastic idea, but there is no doubt some people purposefully leave low quality TO reviews, and this isn't going to go away by recreating the platform (though it will be solved with proper moderation, which is also something I think we can provide here). BUT, none of that means that people will actually take the time to participate. Much like the Wiki, its always going to follow that 90/10 trend of submissions (though I know the Wiki suffers from the extra burdensome bbcode garbage, which a TurkerHub driven TO replacement hopefully wouldn't, it'd be more form-like).

2) Is anyone willing to consider crowd-funding it? I happily dedicate a lot of time to creating stuff for this site, but this is a project looking upwards of over 100 hours worth of dev/admin/setup time - and likely increased server costs. A similar piece of base software already exists as an extension of this site, but its not free and it isn't "out of the box" capable of doing what we want it to do (specifically API calls and considering AMT integration / usability)..

I love all of you dearly, and believe me its freaking awesome that every month this place is paid for (and then some a lot last month) - but this is a completely different beast haha. The wiki is one thing, because it functions even w/ low content generation, but if I were to spend the same amount of time recreating TO here and there was no community driven content generation, I'd have to Sudoku myself because it wouldn't be functional at all.

Just food for thought. I use TO every once in a blue moon, but I can also survive without it, so this doesn't really tickle my special place like some project ideas do.
Click to expand...

As much as we have confidence in the great @ChrisTurk to save us from all our tech woes , I don't think you could solve the fundamental problems with TO. It would take a great deal of work from you, the mods, and the people contributing. To make the concept work you need a higher caliber of turker contributing, and I think most of them aren't going to put in the effort for it. Instead most of the people who contribute are these turkeys

Jesicu · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

I've previously sat down and mapped out most of the math on it (after the third or fourth time someone joked about me doing it lol). I'm pretty confident I could have a functional replacement (with a rudimentary API and everything) in about a month built onto TH.

The problem is.. I can't dedicate the vast amount of time being completely unpaid, especially if the end product doesn't get used. This discussion has come up like 5-6 times now, and I can never tell how serious anyone ever is about it. The two biggest hurdles we'd have to overcome are:

1) Will people participate if the platform is created: we all complain/joke about TO, but really there are some compelling arguments to suggest that TO being bad is good for intelligent and self-sufficient workers. Obviously in some ideal world where work is plentiful and workers aren't in competition for work TO is a fantastic idea, but there is no doubt some people purposefully leave low quality TO reviews, and this isn't going to go away by recreating the platform (though it will be solved with proper moderation, which is also something I think we can provide here). BUT, none of that means that people will actually take the time to participate. Much like the Wiki, its always going to follow that 90/10 trend of submissions (though I know the Wiki suffers from the extra burdensome bbcode garbage, which a TurkerHub driven TO replacement hopefully wouldn't, it'd be more form-like).

2) Is anyone willing to consider crowd-funding it? I happily dedicate a lot of time to creating stuff for this site, but this is a project looking upwards of over 100 hours worth of dev/admin/setup time - and likely increased server costs. A similar piece of base software already exists as an extension of this site, but its not free and it isn't "out of the box" capable of doing what we want it to do (specifically API calls and considering AMT integration / usability)..

I love all of you dearly, and believe me its freaking awesome that every month this place is paid for (and then some a lot last month) - but this is a completely different beast haha. The wiki is one thing, because it functions even w/ low content generation, but if I were to spend the same amount of time recreating TO here and there was no community driven content generation, I'd have to Sudoku myself because it wouldn't be functional at all.

Just food for thought. I use TO every once in a blue moon, but I can also survive without it, so this doesn't really tickle my special place like some project ideas do.
Click to expand...

I'm fine with TO how it is. I get a good laugh from the reviews. A decent portion of the work I do is hidden from people who filter hits.

I don't leave good TO usually. That doesn't benefit me. I don't lie and post bad TO just to keep people away either. But I don't go correcting other peoples lies either. Their desperate need to bash something good just so others don't do it is my win, I guess.

DigitalDenizen · Mar 4, 2017

jdzane said: ↑

how bad is the tedlab sentences? I just caught it.
Click to expand...

I thought it was really difficult if you actually try. These are the hardest word scrambles I've ever seen

Hummingbirdee · Mar 4, 2017

DigitalDenizen said: ↑

I thought it was really difficult if you actually try. These are the hardest word scrambles I've ever seen
Click to expand...

I feel ya. I was way too obsessed with making perfect sentences and decided screw it.

WimpLo · Mar 4, 2017

Title: Cause-and-effect discovery | PANDA
Requester: crausality experimenter [A21EB8FOP51TK2] (Contact)
TO: [Comm: N/A] [Pay: 4.20] [Fair: 5.00] [Fast: 5.00] [Reviews: 6] [ToS: 0]
Description: Explore written cause-and-effect concepts. What is the relationship between two terms?
Time: 35 minutes
HITs Available: 60
Reward: $0.12
Qualifications: HIT approval rate (%) is greater than 80; Location is US; Adult Content Qualification is 1;
This HIT was posted through TurkerHub xPort Script v2.1 • Learn More • Install Here
These are cool.

ChrisTurk · Mar 4, 2017

Jesicu said: ↑

I'm fine with TO how it is. I get a good laugh from the reviews. A decent portion of the work I do is hidden from people who filter hits.

I don't leave good TO usually. That doesn't benefit me. I don't lie and post bad TO just to keep people away either. But I don't go correcting other peoples lies either. Their desperate need to bash something good just so others don't do it is my win, I guess.
Click to expand...

This is how I personally feel about TO. Like I said above, TO being bad benefits intelligent, self sufficient workers.

But if enough people really wanted it, its not out of the question to create.

splishsplash · Mar 4, 2017

WimpLo said: ↑

Title: Cause-and-effect discovery | PANDA
Requester: crausality experimenter [A21EB8FOP51TK2] (Contact)
TO: [Comm: N/A] [Pay: 4.20] [Fair: 5.00] [Fast: 5.00] [Reviews: 6] [ToS: 0]
Description: Explore written cause-and-effect concepts. What is the relationship between two terms?
Time: 35 minutes
HITs Available: 60
Reward: $0.12
Qualifications: HIT approval rate (%) is greater than 80; Location is US; Adult Content Qualification is 1;

This HIT was posted through TurkerHub xPort Script v2.1 • Learn More • Install Here
These are cool.
Click to expand...

Frascinating.

DigitalDenizen · Mar 4, 2017

ChrisTurk said: ↑

This is how I personally feel about TO. Like I said above, TO being bad benefits intelligent, self sufficient workers.

But if enough people really wanted it, its not out of the question to create.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's really fair. I get the majority of my hits from here and I don't think that makes me a bad worker. I'm just utilizing what is available and hopefully giving a little back which is what I believe TO was originally for.

03/04 - Soaring Saturday!

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03/04 - Soaring Saturday!

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